Subject:
*Compromise* (short email) + reply to Joni Shockey (Tue 27 Sept
2016)
To: Kyle
Glenn, c/o Elect Dennis Ross campaign office
863-286-5762 or e-mail Cc: Shelee@ElectDennisRoss.com
Post Office Box 7310, Lakeland, FL 33807-7310
Cc: Joni
Shockey, Esq., Communications Director / D.C. Scheduler
c/o: Rep. Dennis A.
Ross (R-FL-15th), 229 Cannon HOB, Washington, D.C. 20515
T (202) 225-1252,
F (202) 226-0585, Hours: Monday - Friday 8:30 a.m. - 5:30
p.m.
Cc:
Marco Rubio for Senate 2016, https://MarcoRubio.com
PO Box Box
558701, Miami, FL 33255-8701
PO Box 661537, Miami, FL
33266-1537
Cc:
Caleb Orr, HIGHER ED Policy staffer: https://twitter.com/_caleborr
Cc:
Eduardo F. Sacasa, HIGHER ED Legislative Correspondent ; Cf: “Alex,” phone
staffer
c/o: Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), 284 Russell Senate Office
Building
Washington DC, 20510, Phone:
202-224-3041
Cc:
Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. c/o: The Trump Organization
725 Fifth
Avenue New York, NY 10022, Phone: 646-736-1779
and: 721 5th Avenue,
Manhattan, NY 10022
Many
people (especially Democrat friends) have insisted that Congressman Ross was
purposefully deceptive and lied to us to get our vote; however, I know Dennis
(and have known him for a while), and I don't believe he had any intention to
lie us. Nonetheless, Bill Thompson, the opinions editor of The Lakeland
Ledger, who published my recent guest column, also believes Dennis said he
supported student loan bankruptcy –and went so far as to say, paraphrasing:
“Gordon, I believe you, but I won't publish this claim unless you can offer me
proof he said that.” As you know, I sent Bill a link to the THM, and he
listened to it, believed me, & then, of course, published my guest column:
"A Polk Perspective: Fix our bankrupt policy on student debt," By Gordon Wayne
Watts, Guest columnist, The Ledger, August 04, 2016 - www.TheLedger.com/article/20160804/COLUMNISTS03/160809884/1382/edit?p=all&tc=pgall
Here's
the bottom line: I'm disappointed that Dennis was unclear, & moreover, I'm
even more disappointed that he doesn't support legislation which polls suggest
that the majority of Americans want for college students. For that reason, I
was thinking of voting, instead, for the conservative Democrat challenger, Jim
Lange, who's a former Reagan Republican upset at how the GOP has treated the
middle class, and who vehemently hates abortion & wishes to reduce it to
zero (even if he disagrees on the means to get there). **HOWEVER** I offer a
compromise, something very easy; if Dennis can do this, I'll give him:
1.My
vote; and,
2.My support; and,
3.My endorsement (which may include
another OpEd, if I can get on The Ledger's good
side!)
(Let
me remind you that this is 1 better than Ted Cruz gave Donald Trump, getting a
cc copy of my email, here: Cruz gave a pledge to vote for and support Mr.
Trump –but stopped short of a formal 'endorsement,' apparently to keep his
base happy.)
Even
Joni, who vehemently disagreed with my interpretation on Dennis' comments on a
proposed “cure” (e.g., bankruptcy), admits in her email (see below) that he
still agrees with me on the proposed “prevention,” namely she agrees with me
that Congressman Ross agrees that “the government should not be in the
business of providing student loans.” (And, she is correct: Listen to the THM
audio, above, or take a look at Dennis' own webpage, here: http://DennisRoss.house.gov/issues/issue/?IssueID=17117
He goes even farther than I'm asking here: He wants to eliminate the DOE [Dept
of Education], a great idea, even if politically
difficult!)
So,
here's my compromise: While it seems likely that Dennis doesn't support
college loan bankruptcy (or at least, as a standalone solution), we all agree
that he agrees with me (and many other conservatives) that “the government
should not be in the business of providing student loans.” **THEREFORE** I
give my word of honour that I will vote for Dennis if he supports any
combination of the solutions in question, whether bankruptcy (a cure),
elimination of the DOE (a drastic prevention measure), or (as I suggest) a
much more modest “preventative” measure: Slowly reducing loan limits that were
raised on taxpayer dollars used for college loans – a result of the bad John
Boehner bill that I reference on my guest column, published at the Ledger
& elsewhere.
***
CONCLUSION *** –
Kyle, I'm lowering the bar “as low as it will go” to “meet Dennis halfway,”
and make it easy for him to get my vote. **NONETHELESS** I have looked at the
Congressional calender, and this Friday (Fri 30 Sept 2016), it lists: “D.C.
Work Week Votes no later than 3:00 p.m.” – Dennis has been in office for ages,
and has done nothing to make sure that “the government should not be in the
business of providing student loans,” and so here is his big chance to act on
his beliefs & get my vote. Does this work?
To
help you navigate this puzzle, please find the following
attachments:
House
& Senate Calendars to keep you from being late to submit a
bill:
“2016_ANNUAL_CALENDAR2.pdf”
“2016_SENATE_calendar.pdf”
“2016-MONTHLY-CALENDAR.pdf”
Here's
a very mild bill that will lower the loan limits to accomplish Dennis' stated
goal & make sure “the government should not be in the business of
providing student loans” - plus homework showing my bill is
good:
“one-of-several-BAD-BILLS-109hr507ih.pdf” -and-
“one-of-several-GREAT-proposed-BILLS-114hr-GWW-proposed-ih.pdf” -and-
“selected-US-Code-on-Loan-Limits.pdf”
For
reference purposes here a copy of the other bill, which Joni & Melissa say
Dennis doesn't support:
“one-of-several-GREAT-House-BILLS-114hr449ih.pdf”
(just in case he changes his mind)
Statement
on Dept of Education:
“DennisRoss-on-EDUCATION.pdf”
Statement
on decline in how bankruptcy affects availability of
loans:
“DennisRossFacebookEmailProof.pdf”
My
column, in 2 formats – one with commentary:
“TheLedger-Online-PDF-FairUse-cache-WATTS-GuestColumn-Thr04Aug2016.pdf”
“TheLedger-print-version-WATTS-GuestColumn-Thr04Aug2016.pdf”
** PS
** – I'm including Sen. Marco Rubio a copy of my email to you because I offer
him the same deal. (Except, in Rubio's case, I'll “make it even easier” &
settle for a public statement or promise to introduce or sponsor such
legislation, since I haven't given him as much notice as I have Rep. Ross,
who's been aware of this problem for several years. Alex, who answered my
phone call to his DC office, agreed with me that it'd be OK to cc his 2
HigherEd staffers.) Other than that, I'll vote for the Democrat, Patrick
Murphy, who used to be a Republican (and hold my nose while I vote, as he is
fiscally more conservative, but more socially more liberal). The Senate looks
like it's in session 'til October 07, 2016, so Rubio has a little more time to
get my vote. On the other hand, I'm NOT offering this deal to Hillary
Clinton's campaign because, while she has promised “Free College” (which is a
historically sound idea, and one which America used to offer), she's lied so
much that this cancels out everything she might (or might not) say (or
promise). Her track record as a Senator is a train-wreck of do-nothing: She
sponsored S.3255 - Student Borrower Bill of Rights Act of 2006 [109th Congress
(2005-2006)], but she lied about her wishes here (as evidenced by the fact
that she dropped S.3255 like a sack of potatoes when big banks bought her off
with campaign contributions). – Mr. Trump is getting my vote here, **PERIOD**
but, in all honesty, his campaign hasn't addressed this issue, so I'm
including them a cc copy.
*****
-- Subject: “...reply to Joni Shockey”
Joni,
thank you for replying to me, below, with **very** excellent attention to
detail.
I
tender my apologies for being slow to see (and respond) to your reply, last
week (Mon 19 Sept 2016), but I don't check my alternate email account as much
as my main one. (You weren't wrong to reply to it, as I had to use GMail one
day, when my AOL account went frizzy on me - Free email LOL). In the future,
you're welcome to respond to both (or even all) of my email addresses, "just
to be on the safe side."
As you
recall, I replied, briefly, to you that Thursday (22 Sept 2016), but I had
some appointments & couldn't give the proper attention to your email that
I felt you deserve (plus, I made numerous typos LOL), so I'm 'pulling a
mulligan' (golf terminology) & asking if it would be OK for me to have a
“do over,” as your hard work deserves a reply.
Before I forget, I have a question: I've heard of talk of a debate between
Congressman Ross and his challenger Jim Lange, but I've seen no specifics in
the newspaper, only talk. Do you know if there's a debate scheduled, and, if
so, when & where?
Also,
I'm sure Melissa was not offended by this, but I wanted make sure &
acknowledge her efforts & good intents here & to apologize to her for
not giving her credit for an excellent point she made: I had compared the
'real' 2nd Amendment with the bankruptcy, which I nicknamed the 'Economic 2nd
Amendment,' and Melissa rightly pointed out that the Constitution doesn't
guarantee a right to bankruptcy. She was (and is) right, but 2 points: First,
while no right to bankruptcy (for college loans or any loan for that matter)
exists, the Constitution's uniformity clause, cited elsewhere (Art. 1, sec. 8,
cl. 4) does say that IF there's bk law, it must be uniform. (As you know,
current US bankruptcy law is NOT uniform! Does the US Constitution matter any
more? What have we become as a nation...)
Secondly,
I was simply making a comparison here: Bankruptcy serves as a "means of
defense" against predatory lending. Also, I apologize to **all** of you for 2
other things: First, I know the Congressman works for me, but, by no means, do
I wish to be an “overbearing boss.” I've spend greater than usual time with
your combined labour, but Dennis' statements & letters were very unclear,
confusing both myself, Bill Thompson (at the Ledger) & numerous others,
and we needed extra time. Also, the policy you say Dennis suggests, while not
all bad, will **crash** the US Dollar if not reversed, and so I beg your
understanding: This is no small issue! Also, I apologize for my fellow
advocates for their silence: We deserve to lose, since very few are speaking
up to defend me. (In all fairness, though, no letters, op-eds, editorials, or
columns have defended your interpretation of what is good policy,
either.)
This
Saturday (24 Sept 2016), I spent all day working the phones at the Lakeland,
Fla. GOP headquarters at 1833 S. Fla. Ave., to “stump for Trump,” and I was
sore from head-to-toe the next day. – But, I have a little more free time
today, so I'll answer your other points, as they deserve a
reply:
First,
I'll address your point where you claim that Congressman Ross doesn't support
bankruptcy for college loans. I admit that you may be right (and if you or
Melissa say that Dennis explicitly told you that this is what he meant, then I
must take your word). But, in all honesty, you know that boatloads of experts
& professionals listened to the selfsame THM that you reference below
(thank you for correcting my misspelling of the word 'capital' where I wrongly
used the word 'capitol'), and we all heard a different story. Indeed, when
reading his bankruptcy comments, this must be taken “in context” with his
comment that banks must take the risk. This is not unlike the legal concept of
“In Pari Materia,” where Statutes “in pari materia,” even if enacted at
different times – but especially, as here, spoken at the same time, must be
interpreted in light of each other since they have a common purpose for
comparable events or items:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/in+pari+materia
http://definitions.uslegal.com/i/in-pari-materia/
Since
there is no risk (or little risk) for a bank when students can not execute a
bankruptcy, the context would suggest that Mr. Ross was supporting bankruptcy
(where the banks **are** at risk!).
Secondly,
you correctly quoted Dennis as saying: “...and if a person can't pay back,
then we go back to your Bankruptcy Laws,” and the key phrase, here, is “we go
back to”: The “plain language” meaning here is that 'back' refers to previous
in time or chronology, e.g., “back when bankruptcy” was allowed under
realistic (not nearly impossible 'Undue Hardship')
standard.
Third,
and last, here, Dennis was good enough to reply to me by email on Sept. 13,
2016, and apparently Tim Cummings was the one to whom he dictated his letter
(signed “DR/TC” at the bottom). [Mr. Rubio almost never replies, either via an
aide and probably not personally LOL.] Dennis said, in his letter, that: “This
is a complex issue, and one that cannot be solved with simply allowing
students to discharge their student loan debt through bankruptcy or
forgiveness.”
I
agree with him if he meant that he is opposed to “simply” using one or both of
these options, but is open to a multifaceted approach. (If this is what he
meant, then you and I are both wrong: Dennis would be against bankruptcy
and/or loan forgiveness, if used in isolation, “simply” by themselves, but not
necessarily against a multi-pronged approach. If this is what he means, then I
agree – both prevention and cure must be used in combination. Only he knows
what he meant here, and maybe we can revisit this issue & ask him – and,
hopefully, to be fair/complete, also consult other constituents for feedback,
as well.)
Next,
you said that: “With that said, Congressman Ross does not plan to cosponsor
H.R. 449, the Discharge Student Loans in Bankruptcy Act, or similar
legislation, because he believes we should focus more on helping students
repay their student loans and improve their credit rather than promote
irresponsible and credit-damaging bankruptcy and, essentially, free college
education.”
I
disagree on 2 counts: First, as I've shown in other places, it violates both
Equal Protection as well as the Uniformity Clause to have unequal bankruptcy
law (and numerous other constitutional and case law standards). Moreover, it
is inherently unfair in a “moral” sense of the word. (I'm not going to preach
to you: you may believe as you like. But Dennis and I both claim to be
Christians, yet for him to demand that he and his cronies have bankruptcy, but
not college students, violates the clear commands of Jesus in the New
Testament Bible, at Luke 11:46 and Matthew 23:3-4 where he says lawyers put
heavy burdens on others, that they, themselves, refuse to bear, and lack of
bankruptcy is but one burden.)
Secondly,
Joni, your assertion that bankruptcy equates to a free college education is
incorrect: While, yes, I admit that it is theoretically possible to have 100%
of a loan discharged in bankruptcy, using the 'Credit Card' standard that I
claim would make US Law constitutional, nonetheless, you well know that there
is no guarantee that **any** discharge will take place, and, in fact, we all
know that usually the debtor will still have to pay back some of the loan,
depending on what the bankruptcy court decided.
Moreover,
I may not have told anyone yet, but I will state for the record: I am on IBR
(Income Based Repayment), which caps my payments at 10% of my 'discretionary'
income, that is, the income above-and-beyond the poverty level. Since I live
well-below poverty, my yearly payments are 10% of **zero** which is **zero**,
and I am “protected” from the full brunt of the storm, and therefore any
change in law will not help me at all. (In fact, it may make matters worse!)
So, if I'm fully-protected, why am I complaining? Well, even if I am protected
from this debt, nonetheless, inaction by Congress ***WILL*** bankruptcy the US
Dollar since taxpayer dollars make and back (guarantee) these toxic, predatory
loans: College Debt is at like 1.5 Trillion, almost 10% of total US Debt, and
the bubble WILL burst, making America =equal= to the Titanic, and the ship,
WHEN it sinks, will take me down too. I don't want to see this happen... do
you?..
I
know that this is a complex issue (and, in all fairness, I believe that the
student should pay something, and not put the full weight on the government),
but when the full weight is placed on the student (and the taxpayer, who backs
these predatory loans), and no weight is placed on the banks &
universities (who make “big dollar” salaries), this is like placing all your
weight on one leg, and none on the other: You know this would be inherently
unhealthy. Since college used to be free in America (and is presently free in
Germany & other developed nations), and seeing how 'free' college was the
best in the world in our past, it makes no sense that more dollars are charged
for less quality. (This is not unlike how Dennis says on his website that the
District of Columbia's 'voucher' program spends less and does more than public
education schools.)
Lastly,
since you and Dennis seem to think that bankruptcy is not good, let me point
out that his June 02, 2011 Facebook email (back when he replied personally, or
thru an aide) admitted that: “Allowing discharge in bankruptcy for student
loans would cause a sharp decline in availability of loans.” Dennis (or an
aide emailing on his behalf) was correct: This would scare off lenders, but if
this scares off the Dept of Education, which uses tax dollars to lend, would
that not accomplish his other stated goal, namely to get the government out of
the business of making college loans? Do you remember Dr. Bill Bennett, the
Secretary of Education under Pres. Ronald Reagan? The 'Bennett Hypothesis,' so
named after Dr. Bennett, asserted that when you subsidize something, the price
goes up. (Of course! They are able to price-gouge students with stupid-high
tuition because the students have “deep pockets” loans, which is yet another
word-picture of why I want Dennis to act on his beliefs, namely to get the
government out of the business of college loans, which distort the
Conservative Free Market, as evidenced by tuition that flies up much faster
than the CPI!)
Even
though I may have appeared harsh, I am only prosecuting my case, and do not
wish to offend you.
Thank
you, again, for the time & effort you put into reviewing & replying to
my last email.
Anyhow,
are there going to be any debates? Do you know? Thank
you.
In a
message dated 9/20/2016 6:28:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gww1210@gmail.com <Gordon Wayne
Watts> writes:
----------
Forwarded message ----------
From:
Shockey, Joni <Joni.Shockey@mail.house.gov>
Date:
Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: In reply to Kyle Glenn: cc:
Melissa Robel
To: "gww1210@gmail.com" <gww1210@gmail.com>
Gordon,
Thank
you for your email. As for your assertion that Congressman Ross stated he
supports bankruptcy for student loans, we respectfully disagree with your
interpretation of his statement.
In
the Telephone Town Hall transcript you provided, Congressman Ross never once
said he believes student loans should be afforded the same debt forgiveness
that bankruptcy laws provide for other forms of debt. The transcript shows
you asked Congressman Ross a hypothetical question about what he could tell
you about student loan debt being forgiven through bankruptcy, and he
answered with a hypothetical statement, saying (1) the government should not
be in the business of providing student loans, and (2) private capital
should be allowed to enter the student loan market. It seems your assertion
that Congressman Ross stated student loans should be afforded bankruptcy
rights derives from his further explanation of his hypothetical answer
regarding private capital student loans.
The
explanation Congressman Ross is transcribed as giving states:
We
should invite more private capital, we should make it more competitive, and
let the banks take the risks: That's what they're in the business of doing.
And, if they take the risk, and if a person can't pay back , then we go back
to your Bankruptcy Laws, which, umm... You know, the Bankruptcy Laws right
now... If a student does file for Bankruptcy, they can have all other debt
discharged—but their Student Loans.
This
explanation is a continuance of Congressman Ross’ hypothetical answer that
if banks were permitted to participate more in the student loan market, and
a student received a loan from a bank and was unable to repay that loan,
then we would refer to current bankruptcy laws to see if the loan provided
by the bank would qualify for bankruptcy, depending on the type of loan, and
its terms and conditions. Congressman Ross further explains that as
bankruptcy laws stand right now, most student loans do not qualify for
bankruptcy. This explanation in no way advocates for or agrees with allowing
federal and/or government student loans to qualify for
bankruptcy.
As
for student loan legislation, however, Congressman Ross has always supported
helping students repay their loans in ways that are beneficial to them, and
potential employers. With that said, Congressman Ross does not plan to
co-sponsor H.R. 449, the Discharge Student Loans in Bankruptcy Act, or
similar legislation, because he believes we should focus more on helping
students repay their student loans and improve their credit rather than
promote irresponsible and credit-damaging bankruptcy and, essentially, free
college education.
However,
if you are interested in learning more about a few current student loan
bankruptcy options, we encourage you to visit http://www.studentloanborrowerassistance.org/bankruptcy/,
which provides information on bankruptcy qualification for certain student
loans and circumstances.
As
always, Congressman Ross and our office greatly appreciate your advice,
input and advocacy. Congressman Ross could not effectively represent
Florida’s 15th Congressional District without constituents like you who are
active and vocal in our legislative process and government. Congressman Ross
and our office look forward to an open discussion about how we can further
improve our community, state and nation as a whole. Thank you, again, for
your passion and advocacy.
Sincerely,
Joni
Shockey, Esq.
Communications
Director / D.C. Scheduler
Rep.
Dennis A. Ross (FL-15)
229
Cannon HOB
From:
Robel, Melissa
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 1:14
PM
To: Shockey, Joni; Cummings, Timothy; Moody,
Kourtney
Subject: FW: In reply to Kyle Glenn: cc: Melissa
Robel
…
Re: Automatic reply:
Thunderclap comments applauding BUT ALSO critical of Con...
OK. Here's a resend. I'm not
sure if this is related to the Financial Services Committee, but as it
involved ZIKA funding (as one subject) and the use of tax $$ to back
(guarantee) college loans (as the other subject, along with the bankruptcy
for college loans request), it all appears financial in nature, so I'm
forwarding along, as you suggest. -- The original email appears below - and
the same attachments have been reattached; see the cc line above & the
message below.
PS: I'm re-sending from my
GMail account because AOL is acting stupid with this (false) message: "You
can only send one e-mail at a time. Please wait for the current e-mail
to be sent, then try again. (13:03:35)"
Thank you for your
message. I am currently taking some personal time out of the office
without access to this email until November 15, 2016. If you need
immediate assistance within the office of Congressman Dennis A. Ross,
please contact 202-225-1252.
If you have questions
related to the Financial Services Committee, please contact Melissa Robel
here: Melissa.Robel@mail.house.gov
While
I am out of the office, I can also be reached here: Kyle.P.Glenn@gmail.com
-----Original
Message-----
From: Gww1210@aol.com <Gordon Wayne Watts>
Date:
Monday, 12 September 2016, 11:47:03am -0400 (EST-EDT)
Subject:
Thunderclap comments applauding BUT ALSO critical of Congressman
Ross
To: kyle.glenn@mail.house.gov, Gww1210@aol.com
CC: info@electjimlange.com, Joni.Shocke@mail.house.gov,
bill.thompson@theledger.com, lenore.devore@theledger.com,
lenore.beecken@theledger.com, kevin.drake@ledgermediagroup.com,
kevin.drake@theledger.com, lynne.maddox@theledger.com,
gww1210@gmail.com
In a message dated 9/12/2016
11:47:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Gww1210@aol.com <Gordon
W. Watts> writes:
cached
here in a 'Fair Use' copy of the article in question:
I
applaud and commend Congressman Ross for his call for a clean
'Zika' bill - and I specifically make reference to you, Joni (but I
do not mention you by name), and I also reference you, Jim, as a possible
recipient of my vote come November 2016 in House race, U.S. District
15.
Since
I mention Dennis, Joni (anonymously, but by reference) and Jim Lange (by
name), I am sending all 3 of them a copy of my comments -- they are linked
above, referenced in several social mediæ (plural of "media"), it is only
fair I send you a link (and see the attachments, where it is in 3
different formats).
My
email subject line had the word 'Thunderclap' in it because of the use of
numerous social media all at once, and as a cumulative effect from past
op-eds, columns, & editorials.
When
posting to The Lakeland Ledger's forums, I had to break up my
comment into "parts," due to character ("word") limitations.
I
like Jim, really, I do, but he will not get my vote this November if
Dennis acts on the 2 bills in question, signing on (cosponsoring HR449 or
a similar bill) as well as the Loan Limits bill I made up out of thin air
(and attached - also - in this email, in a reprise of my prior call).
-- I appreciate Dennis' attempts in past bills, but, really, things like
HR1911 -- that bill was horrible, and, as one other Congressman put it https://BobbyScott.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/scott-statement-on-hr-1911-the-making-college-more-expensive-act he
titled his blog entry as "Scott Statement on H.R. 1911, the "Making
College More Expensive Act," and frankly, I agree, and that is a chief
reason why Conservative Review here https://www.ConservativeReview.com/members/dennis-ross/liberty-card/ gives
Dennis such a low score.
In
particular, Dennis voted "for" HR1911 http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll426.xml but
Conservative Review held that **against** him https://www.conservativereview.com/members/dennis-ross/issue-votes/
-- it's pretty bad when some miscellaneous Democrat (Rep. Bobby Scott,
D-VA-3rd) is more conservative than Dennis. -- Even if HR1911
'helped' interest rates, it's the *principal* of the loan that's the
problem, not the interest. -- I know time is short, but really... how long
does it take to cosponsor an existing good HR449 bill, one with
bipartisan support - and possibly introduce my reverse-Boehner
bill?
--
Things like this alienate most voters, struggling under heavy college
debt, where a congressman puts on a horse and pony show, but does nothing
of substance. Dennis really cares about us, and I have faith he can honour
his commitments - and do better. College students have gotten
victimised by Unconstitutional bankruptcy law for far too
long.